Post by AshHavynn on May 15, 2010 18:43:02 GMT -5
I Now Pronounce You Mary Sue
Why it's so easy to fall into sue-ing.
Now I know everyone dreads the all-evil term "Mary Sue." No one wants their beloved character to be loathed and scoffed at. And it's understandable why you would want them to be extra super cool or experienced--it's a roleplay character. You're going on adventures through their metaphorical body. Why would you want a character, who looked just like you, had all of the flaws you hated about yourself, went about life in the everyday just the way you already do? No, you want to have fun and drama and play make believe for christ's sake, and let's face it, that's a lot of the fun of roleplaying in the first place--that you get to be someone else for a change. But there's a difference between making a believable shell to use for these adventures, and just plain fantasizing about what it would be like to be awesome. (More on self-inserts later)
C.I.D -- Clique Identity Disorder
Sometimes, you just can't decide...
So you can't make up your mind as to which clique you want to be in? Well, it's not about which clique you would want to be in, but which clique is right for your character. If it comes down to you feeling like your character would act THIS way because they are just THIS kind of person, but you want so desperately to roleplay THAT kind of character, who would act THAT way, then you should probably scrap THIS character and just make THAT character, because otherwise you might wind up with something contorted along the lines of THISAT.
There's nothing wrong with making a spit-fire witty nerd who can strategize attack plans because you think it would be fun and because you are typically the quiet member of the volleyball team. On the other hand, it's not so fun for the other players when you not only are good at the nerd things, but have "friends in high places" so that the prep OCs are put in an awkward situation when bullying you. There are just certain overpowering things that are done by some roleplayers that strike sore nerves with others, and the typical retaliation is to shout "Sue!"
For example, I used to play with my brother and his action figures. I'd chop off my barbie's hair, put her in Ken's clothes, and suddenly she was a kick-butt tomboy bounty hunter. But whenever our toys got into a fight, no matter what tomboy-barbie did, he won. If she used stealth, he used infra red sensors. Had a rocket launcher? Deployed magical shields. Gave up and retreated to find back-up forces? Fired homing missiles. His character was just too good at everything, he knew (without reason) all of my partners, and my hometown, and my family. Was friends with some of them without my consent just so he could use them as double agents. That, my dears, is a Gary Stu, and a frustrating one.
Your nerd is cool because they are smart. They can build their own weapons, their own armor. They probably know the best places to hide and the most advantageous sniper locations. But other roleplayers will frown upon you if they are also a jock, because that means they are also strong, which means in a fight, they're boned. Or if you're a nerd who -isn't- a prep, but is -friends- with the preps. That gives you a certain amount of social status that makes it dangerous to start a fight with you in the first place, not to mention that the preps are too high-and-mighty to befriend one of you, and if they did, it would be an under-the-rug affair, for the leaking of this friendship into public gossip would ruin their reputation. Aren't the elite supposed to befriend... well, well dressed, cultured citizens?
Continuing on, you love New Coventry. You think it's a badass run down ghetto, and the feeling of "bad boy-ness" makes you weak in the knees. Also, Peanut is pretty hot. Maybe he'll steal your bike so you can beat him up. It's no wonder why a few other roleplayers will raise an eyebrow when you constantly talk about that nerd of yours hanging out in NC eating their curds and whey. Realistically, they're going to get pummeled into the hospital. New Coventry might not be the golden gilded gates of heaven, but by god, it's the greaser's turf and they'll be damned if they're going to watch any socially-challenged un-hair-pomaded leather-jacketless dweeb intrude on it. It might feel restrictive, but in the long run, the cliques tend to stay to their clique-designated locations. And if they wander, you can not expect them not to cause an altercation regularly. You also can not expect your nerd to be able to enjoy chinese take-out in NC every lunch and get away with it because their stink bombs are so futuristic that all 25-glitch-spawning greasers are going to have their asses kicked.
The 'Hate Factor'
Cause everyone's got their enemies.
This being said, in an essay of its own, a well rounded character is good, but well-rounded does not mean good at everything, or a part of every clique, or hanging out in locations that other cliques patrol. It's Bullworth. Here, especially, you have to come to terms with the idea that people don't like you. And not just because they're asswipes, but because in general, in order to fit in, something about you needs to be generally unlikeable.
Some examples:
REL is a homewrecking bitch who hates everyone and wants only to see you cry, and will slit her own throat before apologizing.
Will is a creepy stalker who likely knows where you sleep, and who you talk to, and what you eat--and not in the friendly, "I have a crush on you" way.
Kay is a bitter, grumpy stereoptyping jackass who is by this point so misanthropic that if you are not already on her good side, just standing next to her is likely to put you in a pissy mood.
Roxy is a weak kneed, stuttering ball of nosy social nervousness, who flees at the first sight of confrontation--but always manages to be there in the first place to flee.
HA. Didn't think I'd be able to say anything mean about Roxy, did ya?
Basically, my darlings, if you can't say something cutting, insulting, rude, and entirely true about your character, you might want to start from the foundation up. Not being able to blame your character for anything immediately makes them unbelievable and unrealistic.
On the Subject of Self Inserts
Self inserts are when you make a character named after you, designed after you, who acts like you, and you generally describe them as "This is what I would be like if I lived in X fandom."
With all due respect, most people don't really want to roleplay with a souped-up you. We don't want to roleplay with a character who likes all the characters you like and dates the characters you want to date and punches people in the face because YOU'D want to do it. We know you played the game. We know you like and dislike characters. If you want to discuss that, take it to the General Forum.
The main problem with these is that Sue-thors (and YES, self inserts are Mary Sues) tend to go the direction of entertaining their own fantasies to a level that is unrealistic. Just because you think Gary's hot doesn't mean he'll date you and love you unconditionally and stop being sociopathic just for you. If he acts like he likes you, it is likely because he wants something from you. In spite of this, many self-inserts from people who like Gary always seem to overcome this sociopathic trait. This analogy applies to just about every aggravating self-insert scenario. Just don't do it. You can daydream your little heart into contentment about how cool it'd be to live in Bullworth, but when you're playing with other kids, you have to play fair.
Playing Devil's Advocate
Stand up for what you don't believe in!
Agreeing with your own character isn't everything. Don't feel the need to make your character into someone you like, or even someone you could ever be friends with. Take a leap into the unknown and make them disagree with some of your beliefs on the controversial subjects, then take the time to understand why they feel differently than you. It makes roleplaying interesting, to meet the author of a character and discover that they and their character are nothing alike.
For example, I can honestly say that if I ever met REL in real life, I would punch her in her face. She has a liberal sense in PDAs that makes me vomit a little in my mouth, she has no respect for relationship lines, and she's so superficial and shallow that she wastes all of her sharp analytical and people-reading skills on getting arm candy and social status, instead of bettering herself or finding enlightenment. She stifles her own creativity to appeal to the masses and she's so fake I don't know if she even knows what her real favorite song is.
But I love her. She's a blast to play, because I get to be a bitch without reason, and it's so much fun getting to know why it is that she acts like that. I can tell you I enjoy roleplaying her even though we share virtually no moral values.
But How Does That Make You Feel?
People do things for reasons. Shouldn't your character?
His favorite color is blue. He likes popcorn. He hangs out with Pedro.
Fun facts are fun, but... why does he do it? Ask yourselves that when making behavioral and taste decisions.
He likes blue because his best friend growing up lived in a blue house. They were very close, and the friend--being older and thus more mature-- always had good advice. That friend of his got him out of so many binds... He associates blue with trust and compassion. Nostalgia, and a motivation to be a good person. His mother was a movie fanatic--and every Friday, the family went out to go see a new movie. Ma always ordered popcorn, even though she hated it. It was the principle of the concept. She didn't really want to eat it, she just wanted to go see a movie and buy popcorn, by golly. And that was one of the few bonding things he ever got to do with her before the parents split up. Popcorn reminds him to enjoy everything he does with no regrets, even if they don't quite make sense. And he hangs out with Pedro because he never got that chance to be to his little brother what the boy in the blue house was to him, after ma took his baby bro and dad took him. It's a way of finding closure, and a way of passing it on.
Not that your character would be able to describe these emotions in so many words. They might not know themselves at all why they like blue so much... it just makes them feel happy, darn it! You see, answering these questions lets you establish subliminal attachments, memories, feelings. And that will help you, as the author, understand more fluently how your character would react to things.
Not so Black and White
Do you know what values your character has?
Hand in hand with feelings and tastes, your character is going to have morals. These can greatly effect how they react to things. Are they homophobic? Then they probably will feel uncomfortable around the more flamboyant boys, like Cornelius and Gord. Do they believe sex should be saved for marriage? They might be a little appalled by Lola's promiscuity. How do they feel about politics? Liberal? Conservative?
On a more complicated level, are they ok with the beliefs they were raised with? Were they born to a family preaching that social status is everything, but find themselves falling for a townie? The shame! Are they okay with stepping into these new morals that cross class relationships are ok, or does that hard-learned prejudice become an obstacle they must fight with?
People--especially teenagers such as those attending Bullworth--go through moral struggles every day as they try to discover who they really are. Giving your character values that reflect their nature and upbringing and remembering to put them into play are important to keeping them consistent.
The Floppy Character
What WOULD Jesus do!??
Lastly, character development happens over time. A lot of us admins can tell you that our characters have come a long, long way since we first made them 2 ish years ago. It's only natural to notice that some of the things you wrote in your profile have seemingly become obsolete, while other things you didn't feel the need to even write down suddenly play a huge part in their life.
This is different, however, from stating that your character is one way, writing them that way, and then radically changing their virtues when a door is open to give them some air time. If your character has a ghastly fear of heights, they won't climb a tree to slingshot their enemy. They might do it if a dog is chasing them, but odds are they will either not get far, or not be able to get down unaided due to fear. Take care to keep your character reacting to people, places, and happenings consistently and in character.
The Fun Stuff!
Litmus tests, surveys, personality quizzes and character building resources
Mary Sue Tests
About Sue tests, not all are as effective as they're advertised to be. Personally, I dislike the Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test because I find it is sometimes too harsh. It's hard to have a character that is very interesting or talented at all without failing, but it's a good gauge for overkills. Here is a list of tests I've found and taken and the scores REL received. (Admins, I'll add your scores too if you so please).
All score guides can be found on corresponding websites.
The Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test
REL scored a 30. Mary Sue. I basically need to rewrite her.
Will scored a 32. Ew.
Kay's score was 10<SCORE<20
The Writer's Mary Sue Test
REL scored with 21. She's interesting without being over-the-top.
Will also scored with 21.
Kay must have scored >20, because she has the lowest score yet.
More coming soon
Character Questionnaires
Some fun questionnaires to fill out to get to know your character more.
100 Things You Should Know About Your Character
This is my favorite questionnaire. A bit lengthy, and I'm always provoked to write in explanatory paragraphs, but very satisfying IMO, as at points you must really dig deep into your character's personality. There's no rush, and it's just for fun, so enjoy it.
2 Part Questions
I dislike the 1st, shorter questionnaire, because it contains a lot of the questions I already answer in the 100 question survey for my characters. I very very much like the latter one, it has very useful value questions.
Personality Quizzes
Myspace quiz type crap, Just for the hell of it. COMING SOON.
Final Recap
*There is nothing wrong with making a character that you think would be fun to be.
*Avoid making them super talented, but don't feel like they need to be boring.
*It's better to make a new character than to try to force OOC traits on an existing one.
*Your character doesn't need to share your beliefs, hobbies, or tastes to be fun.
*It might actually be more fun to make someone you'd argue with.
*When writing about your character, always ask WHY, about everything they are.
*A realistic character has faults. Always be able to trash talk about your own characters.
*Not everyone is going to like your character, so be picky about Canon friends.
*Don't pretend it's you in an AU. This is fine for daydreams, but generally frowned upon in community Roleplays.
*Once you know who your character really is, stick to your guns and make sure they react to things accordingly.
*Allow them to grow! Character development means getting in there and making decisions over time.
*HAVE. FUN. Nobody's a nazi. We love roleplaying with all of you, and we all used to suck! Remember, we're roleplaying about OCs, not publishing a novel =)
Why it's so easy to fall into sue-ing.
Now I know everyone dreads the all-evil term "Mary Sue." No one wants their beloved character to be loathed and scoffed at. And it's understandable why you would want them to be extra super cool or experienced--it's a roleplay character. You're going on adventures through their metaphorical body. Why would you want a character, who looked just like you, had all of the flaws you hated about yourself, went about life in the everyday just the way you already do? No, you want to have fun and drama and play make believe for christ's sake, and let's face it, that's a lot of the fun of roleplaying in the first place--that you get to be someone else for a change. But there's a difference between making a believable shell to use for these adventures, and just plain fantasizing about what it would be like to be awesome. (More on self-inserts later)
C.I.D -- Clique Identity Disorder
Sometimes, you just can't decide...
So you can't make up your mind as to which clique you want to be in? Well, it's not about which clique you would want to be in, but which clique is right for your character. If it comes down to you feeling like your character would act THIS way because they are just THIS kind of person, but you want so desperately to roleplay THAT kind of character, who would act THAT way, then you should probably scrap THIS character and just make THAT character, because otherwise you might wind up with something contorted along the lines of THISAT.
There's nothing wrong with making a spit-fire witty nerd who can strategize attack plans because you think it would be fun and because you are typically the quiet member of the volleyball team. On the other hand, it's not so fun for the other players when you not only are good at the nerd things, but have "friends in high places" so that the prep OCs are put in an awkward situation when bullying you. There are just certain overpowering things that are done by some roleplayers that strike sore nerves with others, and the typical retaliation is to shout "Sue!"
For example, I used to play with my brother and his action figures. I'd chop off my barbie's hair, put her in Ken's clothes, and suddenly she was a kick-butt tomboy bounty hunter. But whenever our toys got into a fight, no matter what tomboy-barbie did, he won. If she used stealth, he used infra red sensors. Had a rocket launcher? Deployed magical shields. Gave up and retreated to find back-up forces? Fired homing missiles. His character was just too good at everything, he knew (without reason) all of my partners, and my hometown, and my family. Was friends with some of them without my consent just so he could use them as double agents. That, my dears, is a Gary Stu, and a frustrating one.
Your nerd is cool because they are smart. They can build their own weapons, their own armor. They probably know the best places to hide and the most advantageous sniper locations. But other roleplayers will frown upon you if they are also a jock, because that means they are also strong, which means in a fight, they're boned. Or if you're a nerd who -isn't- a prep, but is -friends- with the preps. That gives you a certain amount of social status that makes it dangerous to start a fight with you in the first place, not to mention that the preps are too high-and-mighty to befriend one of you, and if they did, it would be an under-the-rug affair, for the leaking of this friendship into public gossip would ruin their reputation. Aren't the elite supposed to befriend... well, well dressed, cultured citizens?
Continuing on, you love New Coventry. You think it's a badass run down ghetto, and the feeling of "bad boy-ness" makes you weak in the knees. Also, Peanut is pretty hot. Maybe he'll steal your bike so you can beat him up. It's no wonder why a few other roleplayers will raise an eyebrow when you constantly talk about that nerd of yours hanging out in NC eating their curds and whey. Realistically, they're going to get pummeled into the hospital. New Coventry might not be the golden gilded gates of heaven, but by god, it's the greaser's turf and they'll be damned if they're going to watch any socially-challenged un-hair-pomaded leather-jacketless dweeb intrude on it. It might feel restrictive, but in the long run, the cliques tend to stay to their clique-designated locations. And if they wander, you can not expect them not to cause an altercation regularly. You also can not expect your nerd to be able to enjoy chinese take-out in NC every lunch and get away with it because their stink bombs are so futuristic that all 25-glitch-spawning greasers are going to have their asses kicked.
The 'Hate Factor'
Cause everyone's got their enemies.
This being said, in an essay of its own, a well rounded character is good, but well-rounded does not mean good at everything, or a part of every clique, or hanging out in locations that other cliques patrol. It's Bullworth. Here, especially, you have to come to terms with the idea that people don't like you. And not just because they're asswipes, but because in general, in order to fit in, something about you needs to be generally unlikeable.
Some examples:
REL is a homewrecking bitch who hates everyone and wants only to see you cry, and will slit her own throat before apologizing.
Will is a creepy stalker who likely knows where you sleep, and who you talk to, and what you eat--and not in the friendly, "I have a crush on you" way.
Kay is a bitter, grumpy stereoptyping jackass who is by this point so misanthropic that if you are not already on her good side, just standing next to her is likely to put you in a pissy mood.
Roxy is a weak kneed, stuttering ball of nosy social nervousness, who flees at the first sight of confrontation--but always manages to be there in the first place to flee.
HA. Didn't think I'd be able to say anything mean about Roxy, did ya?
Basically, my darlings, if you can't say something cutting, insulting, rude, and entirely true about your character, you might want to start from the foundation up. Not being able to blame your character for anything immediately makes them unbelievable and unrealistic.
On the Subject of Self Inserts
Self inserts are when you make a character named after you, designed after you, who acts like you, and you generally describe them as "This is what I would be like if I lived in X fandom."
With all due respect, most people don't really want to roleplay with a souped-up you. We don't want to roleplay with a character who likes all the characters you like and dates the characters you want to date and punches people in the face because YOU'D want to do it. We know you played the game. We know you like and dislike characters. If you want to discuss that, take it to the General Forum.
The main problem with these is that Sue-thors (and YES, self inserts are Mary Sues) tend to go the direction of entertaining their own fantasies to a level that is unrealistic. Just because you think Gary's hot doesn't mean he'll date you and love you unconditionally and stop being sociopathic just for you. If he acts like he likes you, it is likely because he wants something from you. In spite of this, many self-inserts from people who like Gary always seem to overcome this sociopathic trait. This analogy applies to just about every aggravating self-insert scenario. Just don't do it. You can daydream your little heart into contentment about how cool it'd be to live in Bullworth, but when you're playing with other kids, you have to play fair.
Playing Devil's Advocate
Stand up for what you don't believe in!
Agreeing with your own character isn't everything. Don't feel the need to make your character into someone you like, or even someone you could ever be friends with. Take a leap into the unknown and make them disagree with some of your beliefs on the controversial subjects, then take the time to understand why they feel differently than you. It makes roleplaying interesting, to meet the author of a character and discover that they and their character are nothing alike.
For example, I can honestly say that if I ever met REL in real life, I would punch her in her face. She has a liberal sense in PDAs that makes me vomit a little in my mouth, she has no respect for relationship lines, and she's so superficial and shallow that she wastes all of her sharp analytical and people-reading skills on getting arm candy and social status, instead of bettering herself or finding enlightenment. She stifles her own creativity to appeal to the masses and she's so fake I don't know if she even knows what her real favorite song is.
But I love her. She's a blast to play, because I get to be a bitch without reason, and it's so much fun getting to know why it is that she acts like that. I can tell you I enjoy roleplaying her even though we share virtually no moral values.
But How Does That Make You Feel?
People do things for reasons. Shouldn't your character?
His favorite color is blue. He likes popcorn. He hangs out with Pedro.
Fun facts are fun, but... why does he do it? Ask yourselves that when making behavioral and taste decisions.
He likes blue because his best friend growing up lived in a blue house. They were very close, and the friend--being older and thus more mature-- always had good advice. That friend of his got him out of so many binds... He associates blue with trust and compassion. Nostalgia, and a motivation to be a good person. His mother was a movie fanatic--and every Friday, the family went out to go see a new movie. Ma always ordered popcorn, even though she hated it. It was the principle of the concept. She didn't really want to eat it, she just wanted to go see a movie and buy popcorn, by golly. And that was one of the few bonding things he ever got to do with her before the parents split up. Popcorn reminds him to enjoy everything he does with no regrets, even if they don't quite make sense. And he hangs out with Pedro because he never got that chance to be to his little brother what the boy in the blue house was to him, after ma took his baby bro and dad took him. It's a way of finding closure, and a way of passing it on.
Not that your character would be able to describe these emotions in so many words. They might not know themselves at all why they like blue so much... it just makes them feel happy, darn it! You see, answering these questions lets you establish subliminal attachments, memories, feelings. And that will help you, as the author, understand more fluently how your character would react to things.
Not so Black and White
Do you know what values your character has?
Hand in hand with feelings and tastes, your character is going to have morals. These can greatly effect how they react to things. Are they homophobic? Then they probably will feel uncomfortable around the more flamboyant boys, like Cornelius and Gord. Do they believe sex should be saved for marriage? They might be a little appalled by Lola's promiscuity. How do they feel about politics? Liberal? Conservative?
On a more complicated level, are they ok with the beliefs they were raised with? Were they born to a family preaching that social status is everything, but find themselves falling for a townie? The shame! Are they okay with stepping into these new morals that cross class relationships are ok, or does that hard-learned prejudice become an obstacle they must fight with?
People--especially teenagers such as those attending Bullworth--go through moral struggles every day as they try to discover who they really are. Giving your character values that reflect their nature and upbringing and remembering to put them into play are important to keeping them consistent.
The Floppy Character
What WOULD Jesus do!??
Lastly, character development happens over time. A lot of us admins can tell you that our characters have come a long, long way since we first made them 2 ish years ago. It's only natural to notice that some of the things you wrote in your profile have seemingly become obsolete, while other things you didn't feel the need to even write down suddenly play a huge part in their life.
This is different, however, from stating that your character is one way, writing them that way, and then radically changing their virtues when a door is open to give them some air time. If your character has a ghastly fear of heights, they won't climb a tree to slingshot their enemy. They might do it if a dog is chasing them, but odds are they will either not get far, or not be able to get down unaided due to fear. Take care to keep your character reacting to people, places, and happenings consistently and in character.
The Fun Stuff!
Litmus tests, surveys, personality quizzes and character building resources
Mary Sue Tests
About Sue tests, not all are as effective as they're advertised to be. Personally, I dislike the Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test because I find it is sometimes too harsh. It's hard to have a character that is very interesting or talented at all without failing, but it's a good gauge for overkills. Here is a list of tests I've found and taken and the scores REL received. (Admins, I'll add your scores too if you so please).
All score guides can be found on corresponding websites.
The Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test
REL scored a 30. Mary Sue. I basically need to rewrite her.
Will scored a 32. Ew.
Kay's score was 10<SCORE<20
The Writer's Mary Sue Test
REL scored with 21. She's interesting without being over-the-top.
Will also scored with 21.
Kay must have scored >20, because she has the lowest score yet.
More coming soon
Character Questionnaires
Some fun questionnaires to fill out to get to know your character more.
100 Things You Should Know About Your Character
This is my favorite questionnaire. A bit lengthy, and I'm always provoked to write in explanatory paragraphs, but very satisfying IMO, as at points you must really dig deep into your character's personality. There's no rush, and it's just for fun, so enjoy it.
2 Part Questions
I dislike the 1st, shorter questionnaire, because it contains a lot of the questions I already answer in the 100 question survey for my characters. I very very much like the latter one, it has very useful value questions.
Personality Quizzes
Myspace quiz type crap, Just for the hell of it. COMING SOON.
Final Recap
*There is nothing wrong with making a character that you think would be fun to be.
*Avoid making them super talented, but don't feel like they need to be boring.
*It's better to make a new character than to try to force OOC traits on an existing one.
*Your character doesn't need to share your beliefs, hobbies, or tastes to be fun.
*It might actually be more fun to make someone you'd argue with.
*When writing about your character, always ask WHY, about everything they are.
*A realistic character has faults. Always be able to trash talk about your own characters.
*Not everyone is going to like your character, so be picky about Canon friends.
*Don't pretend it's you in an AU. This is fine for daydreams, but generally frowned upon in community Roleplays.
*Once you know who your character really is, stick to your guns and make sure they react to things accordingly.
*Allow them to grow! Character development means getting in there and making decisions over time.
*HAVE. FUN. Nobody's a nazi. We love roleplaying with all of you, and we all used to suck! Remember, we're roleplaying about OCs, not publishing a novel =)